Interview conducted on April 3, 2023
By Ryan Lowe, edited by Ben Pigott
Ryan: Award Winning fashion photographers, tell me about how you both got there…
DM: To start at the inception of AB+DM alone, we were always at both ends of photography, we had our own separate styles of work and the way we do things. I would be more portrait-focused, and Ahmad would be more fashion-focused. We just realized that we really loved to work with each other once we started to assist each other on shoots. I would become his first assistant and he would become my first assistant and it got to a point where we were seeing duos like Inez & Vinoodh and Luigi & Iango and all these people come out, we had never seen a black version of a photography duo in general. We decided to try it out and see if it works. Having two photographers work together already seems hard enough, in theory. We tried it out, we loved it, and I think the thing about being a duo is it’s important to have that mutual respect and also realize that y’all are one at this point. It’s not one person trying to up another, one person trying to shoot more things than the other, we’re really working as one to get to one common goal.
AB: Since our inception we initially started as two separate visions coming together, bringing our own perspectives. Now we have one unified vision. We’re merging a lot of those concepts and ideas of portraiture meets fashion to create something that feels timeless, something that feels new and fresh. We have a niche in that we have predominantly been hired to photograph celebrities, so we’re bringing this approach to celebrity portraiture, which didn’t always have a more fashion-centered focus. It didn’t always have a focus on trying to innovate or be super creative. For a very long time, celebrity portraiture was just celebrity portraits, there was a certain industry standard style. We are definitely trying to innovate that and be fresher in our perspective on celebrity portraiture and also branch out to other things. We’re doing a lot more key-art things. We’re getting into more model and editorial things, you’ll see a lot more from us soon.
Ryan: Where are you both from, explain how this duo came together & what makes it different from the rest. Especially considering how rare it is.
AB: I’m from Detroit, Michigan and Donté is from Philly but we both reside in Atlanta. We’ve been in Atlanta for most of our adult lives, some of our childhood lives. We met here in Atlanta. As Donté said earlier, we started with just the mission of wanting to support each other’s solo careers and because of working so much we started working together and it’s our vision together to merge our careers to create AB+DM.
Ryan: Explain a time when your work complement each other’s & what the final product looked like… the image.
AB: I know Donté’s going to hone in on one particular instance but I think it shows in all of our work now, when you look at a lot of our work you’ll see where our two visions have met in some of the angles we choose, in particular, the cadence of our stories there’s often a mix of portraiture and fashion. Fashion-centered angles, fashion-centered approaches to creating new portraits, and things like that. Every time we incept and concept a shoot, it is merging our two visions and how now it’s become our style. Literally, any shoot that you think about we can kind of go down the line of, ‘Oh, this is something where those two ideas of fashion and portraiture have come together to create this AB+DM style.’
DM: Now it’s kind of hard to tell the difference. We just kind of flow as one. The only point that we really tried to show was with the first shoot with Zendaya. That was when we were new to it all, our perception was, ‘Okay Donté, you shoot portraits. Ahmad, you shoot fashion wideout, we’re going to stick to that and we’re going to keep it that way.’ But as time went on we realized that we bounce shit off the rocks, I pull some things from him and he pulls some things from me. I wouldn’t be able to look at shots and tell who shot this or who shot what. It doesn’t even matter anymore. We become two different parts of the same body.
Ryan: I read that you worked with Law Roach & Zendaya for InStyle magazine, tell me more about that experience…
DM: This was like our first one in person where we were on location, in Malibu, we had like $4,000 worth of equipment, we had a major magazine…
AB: I would say that marked the inception of AB+DM. Donté received this opportunity first as a solo opportunity and graciously asked me to be a part of it. It was literally the turning point for us deciding to be AB+DM. This job marked the true beginning of us stepping in this new direction, this new chapter. Not only of our lives but of our careers. It’s ironic how all of this happened but in June of 2020, all of this happened in a matter of two weeks. We first drove to New Orleans, Louisiana to photograph Zion Williamson on location which was such a fun shoot. That was our first AB+DM job. On this shoot we had some amazing things happen and some missteps. Of course, there were some things that we felt unprepared about so flying across the country to photograph Zendaya, we were not going to be unprepared. I remember turning to Donté in the car like, ‘Okay, we order $1,000 worth of equipment. I’m ordering everything. There’s going to be a plan A, plan B, plan C, we are not going to be unprepared.’ We had enough equipment alone to start a mini studio. Laura Brown at Instyle was very gracious to allow us to be involved in the location selection and the idea of everything we wanted to do. Us having that freedom was something unheard of, for us. We didn’t understand the true blessing in that one shoot but it prepared us with an expectation of other shoots. We have a lot of on-location experience that we learned just from that shoot, it was like an 8 to 10-hour day. We were shooting by the water going from no wind to open sky to wind coming in and blowing everything off. That shoot was a learning lesson for us and set us up for experiences and it really shows in a lot of our later work. Shooting in 2020, most of our work was on location, so having that shoot to teach us really helped.
DM: I think all of our experiences… all of them are really different. When we look at other bodies of work, all of our work is different because it’s forced to be. All of the talent that we have to shoot, we have to shoot them differently. I think that’s really helped us to become versatile, in a way. Every shoot is challenging in its own special way. We can never get into our normal mold of comfort. The moment we try to be comfortable, and try to do a certain formula, it never works the same. We always have to tweak it. We did a shoot last week where we tried to use a formula that we’ve used and it did not work at all, we were like, ‘What the heck?’ Our assistants went out to lunch and we sat there by ourselves and fixed everything the way we thought it should be.
AB: Looking at things like retouching, we retouched the entire InStyle shoot ourselves. Literally, compositing heads, doing fashion transplants, and things like that. Looking at how far we’ve come from that shoot, it was such an early time of Donté and I being the only two people on set with the model. Even that day it was some of our assistant’s first time being on set, it was such a first time for a lot of things. It was also the first time for a lot of things coming out of the pandemic, the first time the magazine was in person for the first time in six or seven months…
Ryan: How much equipment do you both have on a set? Do you need a lot of hardware to capture a great image?
AB: Something that we’re known for is doing our own EQ lists. Our assistant definitely button it up and let us know if we need more but we do make our own EQ lists, which we didn’t realize was such an industry thing.
Ryan: What is an EQ list?
AB: Generally when you travel to a new city you have to make a list for the studio or production company to tell them what equipment, what hardware, anything that we need on set. Usually, those types of things are done by the first assistant and sometimes you’re not working with the same first assistant so that work is a little bit intense. We sometimes will get a job, today is Monday and sometimes might have to be in LA on Friday. Between today and Friday, we have to come up with an EQ list, mood board, production schedule, and all that kind of stuff. For a normal editorial set I would say, per set, it’s about four to five per-photo packs. Per-photo packs are either eight a pack or a pro photo is ten. Pro ten pack, these are just the lighting packs that connect from larger more powerful heads. You can have anywhere from six to eight heads. Generally, since we’re working with celebrities we’re photographing the talent and lighting the talent separate from the backdrop. Particular lights are lighting the backdrop by themselves. Because we are working with very high-profile talent, they like to be photographed and lit a certain way. We have to come up with that. Depending on how much time and looks we’re doing, this multiplies per step that we have on set. If we know that we’re going to have three backdrops, each backdrop has its own lighting setup so that we’re not moving anything, we’re just moving the talent not wasting time turning lights on and off.
DM: You can have between two hours to six hours to shoot, depending on what they give you.
AB: In terms of hardware we usually have an abundance of media rollers and T stands, at least ten media rollers and maybe five to six T stands with arms. Of course, mega booms which are really long boom arms that carry heavy loads, like octas, we have a bunch of octas on our set most of the time. A bunch of sandbags and power cords, things like that. It gets to be quite a bit pretty fast.
Ryan: Behind-the-scenes stuff, that’s the stuff that not many people get to see.
AB: Luckily we are one of the photographers that do share their BTS. That’s kind of what my Twitter has become known for, posting the behind-the-scenes of whatever shoot we’re doing. We like to post the BTS to provide some resources that we didn’t have. We weren’t always privy to how to light certain things. There aren’t many people who share their secrets on how to light and everything.
DM: Ultimately it’s been about paying it forward. The reason why we’re here and we have the knowledge that we have is because of people like Art Streiber who post their behind-the-scenes and took that time. Art Streiber’s a legend, for him to give us the time to give us a phone call, hop on Zoom for an hour to go through shoots with us, go through his favorite shoots, go through what he uses, email us, all the assistants that he may use so that we can be successful. Or even just to contact, you to say congratulations on everything that you’re doing. We don’t take that for granted. That was done for us very early on in our career, that’s the standard that we choose to move as well.
Ryan: You photographed Black Fashion Fair’s first print issue, I must know more as I’ve been following Antoine Gregory for a while and highly respect him…I love that you connected via a Tweet.
AB: Uh oh, he found a secret, haha.
DM: Ahmad and I are the directors of creative photography for the Black Fashion Fair. Before Black Fashion Fair became a thing it was really a thread that Antoine created and it became an idea. What sparked the book was, what we like to call it, the Black Renaissance where companies are trying to find ways to invest in black talent and black creatives. Warby Parker approached Antoine with like, ‘We want to collaborate on something, we don’t know exactly what that is,’ and so we all just had a conversation. Antoine was like, ‘I want to do a book,’ and we were like, ‘Okay, let’s figure out what that looks like. Let’s hire the talent, create this thing.’ Warby Parker so graciously extended what they had to us, including their money, their talent, their people, and most importantly their time. I’m pretty sure I skipped so much.
AB: Black Fashion Fair’s mission is to support black designers. I think the first volume of the Black Fashion Fair was for us to see ourselves in this history, in this landmark industry of fashion. For us to begin to create those references, that book alone has so many editorials and reference images that people will be using for generations to come. You’re not seeing a team of black creatives working with Couture and fresh off-the-runway pieces, with top models, and things like that. Working with creative references that are for us and by us. It’s really a testament to what we can produce and what’s possible just with a little bit of support from other organizations, and other allies. That can really push our ideas forward. There’s definitely more to come with Black Fashion Fair.
DM: We did that in about six months, right? Six or seven months?
AB: It was probably a little less on the photographing front. I know we started photographing right after Thanksgiving and we finished at the top of January. It was less than two months and we kind of produced everything in about five to six months total. That’s going from ideation to allocating the team, getting everybody on board, and then to photographing everything, getting the articles written, getting it post-produced and printed, and getting it shipped out. It was quite a fast process. Even for us to get a reprint it was such a fast-moving thing. We’re very happy that everyone supported it.
DM: And we got to do Warby Parker’s editorial photos called the Laminate series, which ended up going in the book and online. It ended up being one of their fastest-selling collections. I think I actually bought some.
Ryan: I think that’s how I found you both, the Black Fashion Fair images, the Pyer Moss Couture, the Lampshade dress, black and white. I was like, ‘Oh… I love this!’
DM: I know we really loved that Couture shoot because everybody really doubted that collection when it came out because at first glance it’s like, ‘What is going on?’ But when you dig deep, really look at the pieces and actually put them on and shoot them, you get to see how beautiful some of the pieces really are. Especially when you strip them down to just the dresses, you’re like, ‘Wow, this dress is beautifully made.’
AB: I think that’s definitely a testament to Antoine, we for sure got to give him his flowers for one, having the foresight to see through the noise, see through what was presented, and have the courage to put the ideas behind it, put the budget behind it, put the dedication behind it. Get it done and feature the first black collection that was ever shown during Paris Fashion Week. This is a big deal. It was definitely one of those shoots that was magical after it was done.
DM: And to just believe in us, too. I’m thankful that nobody really acknowledged us as fashion photographers, nobody wanted to book us as fashion photographers and nobody cared to see us as fashion photographers. I think to this day we still get that reaction and so being able to be part of that project, not that we were trying to prove anything but, it was to ourselves that we are fashion photographers. Despite what’s in front of the lens, it’s always going to be shot from a fashion perspective and that’s what makes you fashion photographers.
Ryan: Lizzo for Elle, Cardi B for Interview, Natasha Lyonne for Nylon, Anne Hathaway for CR Fashion Book China… how do you guys accomplish so much in such a short amount of time? What is the recipe for success?
DM: God. Faith. Prayers.
AB: I was literally about to say that!
DM: I like to say it just fell in our lap. It’s God. There’s no specific way, there are people way more talented than us that have done way more than us, to deserve these accolades or jobs. We were chosen for it and we don’t take that lightly. It doesn’t make mortal sense so it has to be divine.
AB: For sure, and I think it even digs deeper to behind the scenes, how strategic and orchestrated God is moving in our career to set things up that, for other people, may not have worked with their career. For those other people, they might not have been the top people to photograph. These jobs or magazines haven’t had the responses before we worked with them. Because we went with our gut, with what God has put in our hearts, opportunities that God has presented to us. Not necessarily opportunities that we even want. We’ve taken these opportunities and put our all into them, approached them as if they were those top magazines. These were the things to set us up for other relationships, and other opportunities in the future. The amount of work that we amassed in the first year is equivalent to some people’s lifetime work. We’re not bragging or trying to be arrogant about that, we’re very grateful and gracious about that. We still have much more to do, we still have more to achieve but we’ve done quite a bit of work in these past four years. It’s no cheat code, I think us having the opportunities and understand how to approach the opportunities in a way where we’re not dropping the ball, not letting egos get involved, and we’re not above anything. If there’s a job that we have to humble ourselves for, we humble ourselves and approach it with honor and with passion. If there’s a celebrity that comes to us and wants to work with us and we see fit, we do it. If we see a job that has no budget and we see fit, we do it. There are many shoots where we invested our money, paid for our own flights, and paid for our own equipment. Those are things that, behind the scenes, are not glamorized within this line of work.
DM: Integrity is important.
AB: Integrity is important. What you’re not going to stand for, what isn’t for you, and regardless of what feels pretty, what feels like a wave in your face, things are just not for you.
Ryan: Where do you both see AB+DM in one year? Five years?
AB: I would say in five years we’re going to redefine the studio part of AB+DM. I see us really expanding to other team members being brought in-house, like retouching in-house, producing in-house, and motion in-house. Things like that are where we are becoming a full-service studio. All in all, you still come to us for everything, it will still be with us at the helm with the vision. We’ll have a group of team members that we will call family that will help us bring some bigger vision to the light. For a year I would say you’re going to see even more work from us that’s not magazine centered, that’s not celebrity centered. You’re going to see movie posters, key art, advertising campaigns, more modeling editorials, you’re going to see us having fun.
DM: You’re going to see us as the face of a couple of things.
AB: I do think this next year is going to be important for us to redefine AB+DM’s brand, and what the brand side of that looks like. What Donte and I’s brand, and the minds behind AB+DM look like. Key art is way more meticulous than magazine work, way more to think about. We’ve had the blessing of shooting a few of them now so we’re excited for more.
Ryan: To individuals out there who may not have the necessary means to be a photographer, how might you start… any advice?
DM: Shoot, shoot, shoot. No matter what the resource is, no matter what you have. Even using an iPhone, try to master your craft as much as possible. Use what you have around you and as you amass more, start to master that as well. Those who are faithful with little will be faithful with much.
AB: I double down on that. Don’t feel like you need the biggest, best, or the most to do what you need to do. I think this is a testament to how we started. We didn’t start with big studios, we didn’t start with the most expensive lights, we didn’t start with the most. We just moved into a new lobby. I still have my AlienBees that I was shooting with ten years ago. We had those things with one or two modifiers and a couple of umbrellas and we were hoping for the best. That’s how I learned Photoshop because I was learning how to fix my images because I didn’t know what to do. Not to toot our own horn but we’ve shown you that you can produce a very good shoot with an iPhone. It’s becoming a niche of its own, mobile photography is still a thing, and there’s a lot to do and a lot to work with. Start networking, using your socials, and your hometown community to network and build the teams. One of our most important professional skills is understanding how to work with a team. If you don’t understand how to work with a team you will only have half the success. A big part of this industry is working with and managing teams, being very communicative, and being open to collaboration.
Ryan: THANK YOU BOTH SO MUCH!